HA Amarillo y col. Seguridad y entrenamiento de las colonoscopias por cirujanos. Rev Argent Cirug 2020;112(3):274-292
291
the skills they must develop. I believe that this concept is very
important due to how it is positioned, and neither Tucumán nor
Salta can tell us that we cannot perform of bill for endoscopies
because the concept is the same. The Ministry is so involved
that another meeting will be held in the Senate tomorrow to
discuss this issue; this is politics and it will be difficult as long
as the government and institutions do not regulate it. I believe
that we have to get involved so that each of us in our work
place can show what we are doing, our standards in terms of
safety and quality, as they can say we do not perforate the
colon but they achieve cecum intubation in 30% of the cases
so we have to look for both things: quality and safety, which
has been demonstrated here. The residency program must be
the setting for introducing this concept, but we cannot expect
residents to finish their training with expertise in endoscopy,
because they will have to perform a significant number of
procedures, and I believe that the introduction is the way, and
they will probably acquire the expertise in the subspecialty they
decide to follow. I believe that we must be very careful when
we train surgeons in endoscopy because the worst thing that
can happen to us is to have bad results and loose everything
we have gained. Undoubtedly, endoscopies should be part of
fellowships in subspecialties, so those receiving training in
esophagus must know how to perform endoscopy and obtain
the accreditation to perform upper endoscopy and colonoscopy
as well. What have we done in our hospital? Firstly, we do
not argue. In our hospital, colonoscopies are performed by
gastroenterologists and colorectal surgeons; approximately
with the literature, so we have not found a different risk group.
Marcelo F. Figari: I would like to ask Dr. Amarillo a question
about education. I was surprised that simulation was not
commented in the presentation or by any of the colleagues
who expressed their opinions. And there is a wide range of
courses in medical education using simple simulators to acquire
skills for three-dimensional manipulation in a cavity or more
complex simulators to simulate polypectomies, even with haptic
capabilities. in which stage are we? Because it seems to me that
it would be not only a step to take for patient safety, but for
increasing training opportunities outside the real scenario.
Hugo A. Amarillo: Thank you Dr. Figari, your comment is
excellent. Basically, we did not focus on that target when we
developed the work, but nowadays training is very different
from what it used to be 20 years ago, when I was trained
in colonoscopy. There were no such simulators available in
Argentina, particularly in Buenos Aires. Nowadays I think that
you obviously have to use a simulator before practicing with
a patient, and that before setting up a whole educational
stage in simulation we have to focus on which attitudes or
skills should residents acquire, because if they will have to
spend hours of practice in simulation and then they will only
perform rectoscopies, we are losing resources. So, I believe it
important to define the curricula, to know what to do in each
instance.
20% of the colonoscopies performed in the Hospital Italiano
Jorge A. Latif: Thank you very much, Mr. President. I cannot
avoid congratulating you on the work you have brought us
tonight. Looking at the results, it is obvious that your conclusion
is that it is feasible and safe. My impression is that considering
that the participating centers as Hospital Británico, the center
and your center are highly specialized in the matter, I agree
with the results, with the low results in complications that you
have had and surely when you compared with the second part,
training in those same centers is responsible for those results.
With regard to implementation in the curricula, I believe that
all of us in this room tonight, and despite some of us do not
manage the surgery departments, we all agree that we have
to do this and that our residents have to take their first steps
in training in endoscopy during the residency program. Four
years ago, we were lucky to work with Dr. Sequeira, still at
that time, and we implemented surgery, endoscopy in general
surgery and coloproctology, that is, at this moment in Clínica
Modelo de Lanús all the staff physicians perform upper and
lower gastrointestinal endoscopy. Since this year, we have
implemented the mandatory training for residents in surgery
during their 4-year-education program in the curricula of Colegio
Médico de la Provincia de Buenos Aires, Distrito II, and over the
last 2 years we have intensified this. Some laboratories have
offered more simulators for complex endoscopies and different
options for the endoscopist to us and to other people, and they
will have to take the course of the Asociación Argentina de
Cirugía de Endoscopía which I think is also important and that
will provide a curricular background to be able to work. The
Sociedad Argentina de Coloproctología is also working on that in
the two residency programs accredited and with the fellows in
our training programs in laparoscopy and digestive endoscopy
in each of the departments of surgery. And finally, I do not
agree much with Dr. Rotholz that we do not have to be paid for
these procedures. Nowadays payment for these procedures as
a diagnostic or therapeutic tool is not formalized at all in the
province of Buenos Aires. For example, we can bill many prepaid
medical systems or workers› health insurance systems for lower
digestive endoscopies as qualified specialists in coloproctology,
but we cannot bill for upper digestive endoscopies, and the
situation is even worse in the provinces, where surgeons deal
with many issues. The truth is that, going back to residents›
education and training, nowadays residents should finish their
training program with the same skills in digestive endoscopy
they have in ultrasound in trauma setting, and in some centers
with better training in diagnostic imaging, and I believe, as Dr.
Leiro said, that bringing this subject into discussion in this setting
is of utmost importance. Congratulations.
are done by surgeons; so, there is an important workload to
deal with. At this moment, we have one staff surgeon trained
in upper digestive tract for the first time, and he is going to start
working. So basically, my question is that we are talking about
diagnosis and therapy, and we are forgetting intraoperative
endoscopy. Intraoperative endoscopy must be the tool used by
surgeons because the surgeon is the king in the operating room,
so we need to perform intraoperative endoscopy to manage
intraoperative complications. Obviously, we must be trained,
but I believe that this is an unexploited area that can be applied
in the upper and lower digestive tract. It is not acceptable for us
to perform a colon resection without the tumor in the specimen
and this has happened, and the tumor had been tattooed, so,
we must know how to use it intraoperatively. The question
I want to ask is: How do you perceive the implementation of
intraoperative endoscopy? You talked a lot about complications.
Are you worried about complications such as perforation? and I
am talking about something that happened to us in the hospital.
Are you performing endoscopy with air or with carbon dioxide?
Because I believe that this makes a total difference in our
management of complications. My congratulations again to all
of you for the topic and the presentation.
Hugo A. Amarillo: Thank you very much Dr. Pekjol for all the
comments, we are well aware of the work that the Asociación
Argentina de Cirugía is carrying out and that is what will allow
us surgeons to advance on all the topics that we have previously
discussed. With respect to the specifics of the questions, we
are in complete agreement that an intraoperative colonoscopy
should be performed by a surgeon and that is precisely why
perhaps residents need to be trained in basic endoscopy because
perhaps while the surgeon is operating, the resident can check
an anastomosis or a of a mega-colon to go on with the resection
or control an intraoperative bleeding from a low anastomosis
or find the lesion that had not been tattooed, so in that sense,
I think, we have to go on with intraoperative endoscopy and
that is the reason to be trained. We use carbon dioxide in the
Hospital Británico and air in the provinces, except in Cordoba,
and we are moving toward new carbon dioxide equipment
devices, but obviously that makes a complete difference in case
of therapeutic endoscopy.
Manuel R. Montesinos: A specific question about the few cases
of patients with complications: I want to know if they were
specially analyzed by age or associated comorbidities, to see if
they are more likely to present complications to be aware that
complications and endoscopy are more dangerous in this sub-
group of patients, Thank you.
Hugo A. Amarillo: Thank you, Dr. Latif, for your comments.
And just a small contribution about the residents; the residency
program and training has been shifting thanks to technology,
residents› attitude towards new techniques and new
technology has also been shifting and they have much more
Hugo A. Amarillo: Thank you for the question. Indeed, as
Dr. Montesinos says, when we made the analysis of all the
characteristics, gender, age, and history of polypectomy coincide